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Home My WebLink AboutCity Council Retreat Jan 26 2026 Morning SessionCity Council Retreat January 26 -27, 2026 Pre-Retreat Council Interviews 2 Public Safety/ Emergency Services Infrastructure Public Works Stormwater Schools Parks and Recreation Economic Development Quality of Life Planning Housing Human Services Arts and Culture Public Health Non -City Agency Partnerships Environmental Protection Historical Preservation Agriculture What are core government services? 4 Reallocating dedications Fees for services New taxes or fees What would you consider in order to generate revenue? Raising property taxes 5 Would you consider... Raising property taxes Keeping property taxes the same Reducing the property tax Reducing to a revenue neutral rate 6 Reduce funding to dedications Lay off employees Eliminate programs Eliminate vacant positions Identify efficiencies Reduce Capital Improvement funding Reduce funding to non-profits, outside agencies, consultants What would you consider in order to reduce expenses? Budget Process and Community Engagement 7 8 Budget Timeline Forecast Revenue Evaluate Larger Budget Drivers Council Retreat –Focused Action Plan August CIP Begins Determine Operating Target September Operating Budget Kickoff Departments Prepare Budgets October CIP Submissions due 5-Year Forecast November Operating Budget Submissions due by Departments Governor’s Proposed Budget December 9 Budget Timeline Continued Department Budget Hearings VRS Bi-annually Council Retreat School Budget Workshops January Real Estate Assessments finalized School Budget Workshops Superintendent’s EON (2/24) February Balancing Act Tool Active School Budget Workshops School Board Approves Budget (3/24) Proposed Budget (3/24) March Council Budget Workshops Public Hearings April Reconciliation Workshop Budget Adoption May 10 Continual Input and information gathering July August September October November December January February March April May June •Input on budget gathered during all council meetings •Budget-themed Blogs on virginiabeach.gov •Public Hearings •Monthly district town halls •Task Forces •Civic Leaders Academy •PISC Meetings •COG Review of Grants in August and February •Various Stakeholder Groups: •RIC, RAC, CBDA, Open Space Committee, Agriculture Advisory, Hotel Association, Envision, etc. •SpeakUpVB! •Biennial Resident Survey •Budget Presentations to Civic Groups (Taxpayer Alliance, etc.) Direction Needed 11 •Presentations in April from all department heads and CIP sections •Special Session on March 31st for additional budget discussions (Fifth Tuesday) “Myth” of the $2 Billion Budget 12 Revenue Allocations in $2.8 Billion Budget - FY 26 13 Total 2,785,687,829 Enterprise (274,365,281) State (705,587,656) Federal (168,584,391) Local Revenues 1,637,150,501 SSD Fund Revenues (11,916,998) Dedication Funds (220,969,628) Schools Local (594,632,939) Remaining City Local Revenue 809,630,936 Tax Exemption Elderly and Disabled (16,348,702) Department Specific (110,073,066) Remaining Allocation General Government Services 683,209,168 Allocation of Non-Dedicated Revenue 14 $ 683,209,168 General Fund Debt (54,812,347) Health Department Local Match (3,262,991) Federal Grant Matches (1,524,012) Line of Duty Pay (1,800,000) Retiree Health Insurance/EAP/Benefits Admin/Tuition Reimbursement (6,827,040) Grants/Contributions/Arts & Humanities (5,682,055) Public Transportation (7,435,033) Utilities/Leases (22,440,605) Fuel (4,551,585) External Audit (199,736) City Garage/ Vehicle Replacement (20,322,144) Risk Management (11,743,584) Telecommunications (Desk Phones)(2,690,318) Regular Reserve (1,500,000) Compensation & Health Reserve (26,551,000) Licenses & Computer Replacement (21,747,175) Pay-go to CIP (38,654,320) Amount Remaining for General Fund Departments 451,465,223 15 General Government Supported Departments Police 117,876,543 Fire 77,603,945 Emergency Medical Services 21,950,334 Emergency Communications 11,615,071 Commonwealth Attorney 9,272,523 Courts 4,469,329 City Treasurer 3,712,834 Commissioner of the Revenue 5,831,838 Municipal Council 737,903 Human Services 44,809,391 Public Works 12,018,810 Housing & Neighborhood Preservation 7,892,590 Planning 7,374,477 Health Department 522,883 Agriculture 650,195 Aquarium 2,503,260 Auditor 1,132,078 Budget and Management Services 1,568,669 City Attorney 6,018,528 City Clerk 705,763 City Manager 3,794,610 Communications 3,948,812 Cultural Affairs 3,285,790 Convention and Visitors Bureau 5,251,139 Economic Development 4,440,693 Emergency Management 1,969,813 Finance 6,687,986 Human Resources 9,336,869 Information Technology 24,372,244 Library 20,556,396 Office of Performance & Accountability 925,071 Parks and Recreation 21,952,295 Real Estate Assessor 3,896,334 Voter Registrar 2,780,207 Total 451,465,223 $242.8 M or 54% $10.3 M or 2% $72.6 M or 16% $125 M or 28% “Myth” of the 700 Vacancies 16 Vacancies by Funding Source 17 Source Count Enterprise Fund 51 Special Revenue Fund 44 State Supported 176 Federally Funded 7 Grant Funded 21 Dedication (Arts & Culture/Stormwater)25 Public Safety (Including Sheriff)229 General Fund 203 Total 756 Overtime & Contracted Manpower – FY25 18 General Fund Budget Actual Difference Contracted Manpower 12,337,582 14,079,434 (1,741,852) Overtime 22,774,410 32,221,727 (9,447,317) Total 35,111,992 46,301,161 (11,189,169) Use of Vacancy Savings for the Unexpected and in CIP 19 •In 2023, a tornado touched down in Virginia Beach damaging homes in Great Neck. Resources were needed for emergency mobilization and clean up crews. Attrition savings was the funding mechanism for that emergency. •Use in the CIP: Feb 2025 Mar 2025 July 2025 Dec 2025 Jan-Jun 2026 FY 2025 Attrition Savings Estimate included into General Fund Fund Balance Estimate FY 2026 Proposed Budget developed with anticipated use supporting Year 1 of CIP Appropriations are authorized FY 2025 Audit finalized confirming unassigned Fund Balance 8-12% Pending cash position of the City a freeze of projects could occur “Myth” of the $5.6 Billion CIP 20 “Myth” of $5.6 Billion CIP Appropriation Appropriated to Date FY 2026 Budget FY 2027 Budget FY 2028 Budget FY 2029 Budget FY 2030 Budget FY 2031 Budget CIP Total Capital Projects Buildings & Assets 321,123,468 77,342,129 24,225,892 74,646,884 51,457,852 16,361,202 16,310,202 581,467,629 Coastal 134,303,821 12,029,575 6,564,796 5,786,000 9,531,000 10,141,999 5,702,496 184,059,687 Economic & Tourism Development 467,955,257 36,941,362 10,683,453 4,310,359 4,241,651 4,177,066 4,177,066 532,486,214 Flood Protection 735,093,864 21,145,123 4,622,000 3,800,000 3,000,000 3,000,000 3,000,000 773,660,987 Information Technology 167,812,066 22,386,696 8,746,086 20,481,304 18,400,733 12,141,456 12,141,456 262,109,797 Parks & Recreation 196,612,569 64,782,870 15,294,384 46,068,495 12,382,050 12,490,702 12,490,702 360,121,772 Roadways 659,873,070 68,075,554 73,878,859 51,749,843 45,236,641 57,586,549 35,360,514 991,761,030 Schools 475,130,016 71,300,000 61,800,000 61,800,000 61,800,000 61,800,000 61,800,000 855,430,016 Sewer Utility 188,080,415 27,285,000 22,895,000 25,483,000 33,880,000 28,595,000 34,180,000 360,398,415 Stormwater 333,528,424 29,144,001 29,144,001 29,544,001 29,544,001 29,544,001 29,544,001 509,992,430 Water Utility 124,652,426 16,449,000 17,364,000 16,690,000 7,850,000 17,239,000 15,140,000 215,384,426 Total Capital Projects 3,804,165,396 446,881,310 275,218,471 340,359,886 277,323,928 253,076,975 229,846,437 5,626,872,403 Unappropriated Subsequent Years Myth of the $5 Billion Continued 22 FY 2026 Total $ 446,881,310 Less: Enterprise Funds (73,490,504) Flood Protection (21,145,123) State Funding (22,382,740) Federal Funding (12,280,000) Special Service District Funds (1,262,666) Fire Grant Funding (300,000) Speed Enfoncement/Franchise/Medicaid/Contribution, etc.(5,155,702) = Local Revenues $310,864,575 Less: Dedication Funds (38,178,917) Dedication Fund (Bonds)(101,504,496) Schools Local (71,300,000) = Remaining City Local Revenue $99,881,162 General Fund Debt 19,398,191 General Fund - Pay-as -you-go 43,954,320 General Fund- Fund Balance 36,528,651 $99.8 Million Allocation 23 Section Amount Buildings and Assets 44,528,031 Coastal 8,910,165 Economic and Tourism Development 400,000 Information Technology 21,966,344 Parks and Recreation 5,353,135 Roadways 18,723,487 Total $99,881,162 •Roughly 22% of total yearly programmed CIP •Annual allocation across these sections is close to the construction cost of two roads. Tax Diversification and Peer Benchmarking Background Information •Tax diversification discussion has occurred multiple times over the years ▪Mostly driven real estate assessment growth and Virginia Beach’s reliance on that growth to avoid degradation of services. •2007 Blue Ribbon Task Force ▪Established with the aim to explore revenue diversification options and provide recommendations to the City Council 25 Additional Context for Discussion: •Flexibility exists within limitations and boundaries established by State Code and many of the findings from Blue Ribbon Task Force study and recommendations are still relevant to the tax diversification discussion today. •Summary of Examples: •Aligning fees to be more businesslike in covering cost of service reducing General Government tax burden (Permits, Inspection, Parking Tickets, Recreation Center Fees, Court Fees, etc.) •Discussion of adjusting lower tax rates or establishing new taxes, to help offset cost of services. •Request General Assembly assistance in establishing alternative taxing options. 26 Comparative Report of Local Governments Virginia Auditor of Public Accounts 27 Revenue % VB Revenue % Average Commonwealth Local Revenue Real Estate 48.89%46.00% Personal Property - General 9.43%9.25% Personal Property - Mobile Home 0.00%0.01% Machinery and Tools 0.00%1.14% Merchants Tax 0.00% Local Sales and Use Taxes 6.41%7.25% Consumer Utility Taxes 1.71%1.77% Business License Taxes 4.23%4.68% Franchise License Taxes 0.00%0.03% Motor Vehicle Licensees Taxes 0.77%0.62% Bank Stock Taxes 0.30%0.53% Recordation and Will Taxes 0.56%0.40% Tobacco Taxes 0.61%0.51% Admission Taxes 0.66%0.31% Hotel and Motel Room Taxes 3.71%1.88% Restaurant Food Taxes 6.60%6.53% Coal, Oil, and Gas Taxes 0.00%0.00% Other Local Taxes 0.11%0.23% Permits Fees 0.47%0.74% Fines & Forfeitures 0.21%0.43% Charges for Services 11.21%11.15% Use of Money - Miscellaneous 4.12%6.55% Commonwealth Benchmarking Locality Real Estate Tax per $100 Assessed Personal Property Tax per $100 Assessed Cigarette (20 pack)Meals Transient Occupancy (Hotel) Admissions Charlottesville 0.98 4.40 0.55 7.00 9.0 0.0 Chesapeake 1.01 4.08 0.13 6.00 8.0 10.0 Covington 0.85 3.08 0.3 8.00 6.0 0.0 Danville 0.83 3.45 0 6.50 8.0 0.0 Emporia 0.92 5.00 0 7.50 11.0 0.0 Fairfax 1.06 4.13 0.85 4.00 4.0 0.0 Falls Church 1.20 5.00 0.85 4.00 6.0 10.0 Franklin 1.03 4.50 0.7 8.00 8.0 0.0 Fredericksburg 0.80 3.40 0.31 6.00 8.0 7.0 Galax 0.92 2.25 0 7.50 8.0 0.0 Hampton 1.14 4.50 0.85 7.50 8.0 10.0 Harrisonburg 1.01 3.45 0.3 7.00 7.0 5.0 Hopewell 1.17 3.50 0.4 6.00 8.0 0.0 Lexington 0.92 4.25 0.25 6.00 8.0 0.0 Lynchburg 0.84 3.80 0.35 6.50 6.5 7.0 Manassas 1.07 3.60 0.65 4.00 8.0 0.0 Newport News 1.18 4.50 0.85 7.50 8.0 10.0 Norfolk 1.23 4.33 0.95 6.50 9.0 10.0 Norton 0.90 2.05 0.4 8.50 7.0 0.0 Petersburg 1.27 4.90 0.18 7.00 10.0 5.0 Poquoson 1.14 4.15 0.2 6.00 8.0 0.0 Portsmouth 1.24 5.00 0.95 7.50 8.0 10.0 Salem 1.18 3.40 0.45 6.00 8.0 7.0 Staunton 0.91 2.90 0.3 7.00 6.7 0.0 Suffolk 1.07 4.25 0.75 6.50 8.0 10.0 Virginia Beach 0.97 4.00 0.75 6.00 9.0 10.0 Waynesboro 0.82 3.25 0.3 7.00 6.0 0.0 Williamsburg 0.62 3.50 0.4 5.00 5.0 0.0 Winchester 0.80 4.80 0.5 6.50 8.0 5.0 Mean*1.00 3.91 0.52 6.50 7.66 8.29 Median 1.01 4.08 0.4 6.5 8 0 *localities with non-zero values only Hampton Roads Comparison Tax/Fee Virginia Beach Chesapeake Norfolk Portsmouth Suffolk Hampton Newport News Real Estate (per $100 /A.V.)$0.97 $1.01 $1.23 $1.24 $1.07 $1.14 $1.18 Personal Property (Vehicles & Business)$4.00 $4.08 $4.33 $5.00 $4.25 $4.50 $4.50 Personal Property (Machinery & Tools) -$0.64 $1.70 $1.50 $0.63 $1.23 $1.25 Personal Property (Boats)-$0.09 -$0.50 $1.50 -$1.00 Automobile License Registration $30.00 $26.00 $31.00 $32.00 $26.00 $35.00 $26.00 Cigarette (per pack)$0.75 $0.65 $0.95 $0.95 $0.75 $0.85 $0.85 Solid Waste Fee (per month) $30.55 -$33.41 $29.16 $30.00 $38.05 $31.63 Meals Tax 6.0%6.0%6.5%7.5%6.5%7.5%7.5% Admissions Tax 10.0%10.0%10.0%10.0%10.0%10.0%10.0% Hotel Percentage Tax 8.0%8.0%8.0%8.0%8.0%8.0%8.0% Hotel Flat Tax $2.00 $2.00 $3.00 $3.00 $1.00 $2.00 $1.00 29 Discussion – Hotel Flat Tax Per Bedroom (STRs) 30 Real Estate Rate Virginia Beach Chesapeake Norfolk Portsmouth Suffolk Hampton Newport News Real Estate (per $100 /A.V.)$0.97 $1.01 $1.23 $1.24 $1.07 $1.14 $1.18 31 Rate:97¢ per $100 Assessed Value Budgeted Revenue:$804,258,930 (excluding Town Center TIF) Per Penny:$8,253,610 Timing of Tax:Fiscal year tax with bill split with ½ payment due in December and ½ payment due in June. Payment Method:80% on average escrow (LERETA estimate) meaning payment occurs through monthly mortgage payment or direct payment to City Resident/Business tax base:Residential: Residential 60.5% Apartment 8.4% Townhouse 5.8% Agriculture 0.3% Commercial: General 7.4% Hotel 2.0% Office 2.3% Industrial 1.8% Rate Limit:There is no established tax rate limit by the State. Personal Property Budgeted Revenue:$220,601,034 Timing of Tax:Calendar year tax with the primary billing due June 5th each year. Rate changes go into effect January 1st. Payment Method:Direct payment to City Tax Relief:Elderly and Disabled: Tax rate of $0.000001 per $100 for 1 vehicle Disabled Veteran: Tax rate of $1.50 per $100 assessed value (one vehicle) EMS Volunteer Vehicle: Tax rate of $0.000001 per $100 for 1 vehicle Business Personal Property (New Business): Tax rate of $0.000001 per $100 for first two years of operation Rate Limit:No State limit on local tax rate established 32 Personal Property Type Count Rate Per Penny Vehicle/Trailer 429,256 $4.00 per $100 assessed $ 465,249 Business PP 25,192 $4.00 per $100 assessed $ 89,255 Commercial Vessel 640 $1.50 per $100 assessed $ 6,601 Pleasure Boat 19,671 $0.000001 per $100 assessed $ 38,092 Machinery and Tools 216 $0.000001 per $100 assessed $ 26,708 Recreational Vehicle 995 $1.50 per $100 assessed $ 3,769 Manufactured Home 1,855 $0.97 per $100 assessed $ 1,948 Computer Equip- Data Center - $0.40 per $100 assessed 33 Virginia Beach Chesapeake Norfolk Portsmouth Suffolk Hampton Newport News Personal Property (Vehicles & Business)$4.00 $4.08 $4.33 $5.00 $4.25 $4.50 $4.50 Personal Property (Machinery & Tools)-$0.64 $1.70 $1.50 $0.63 $1.23 $1.25 Personal Property (Boats)-$0.09 -$0.50 $1.50 -$1.00 Meals Tax Rate Virginia Beach Chesapeake Norfolk Portsmouth Suffolk Hampton Newport News Meals Tax Rate %6.0%6.0%6.5%7.5%6.5%7.5%7.5% 34 Rate:6.0% of sales price Total Revenue:$111,422,843 Per Percent:$18,570,474 per tax percent Timing of Tax:Fiscal year tax. Sellers submit the meal tax by the 20th of each month for the previous month. Payment Method:Collected by businesses at point of sale and Businesses remit to City monthly Resident/Business tax base:Impact on local residents and businesses is not exactly known due to heavy influence of tourism. Estimated split is roughly 40% of tax is generated by tourist. Rate Limit:No State established tax rate limit Update on FY 2026-27 Budget Drivers 35 Mandated Program Increases •Veterans Tax Relief •Mandated by the Commonwealth •FY 27 Projection $44 million equal to 5.3¢ of Real Estate Tax Rate •Increase of $9.2 million from FY26 to FY27 Estimate •Line of Duty •Around 2010, large portion of funding responsibility shifted from State to Employers (localities). Premiums paid in annually based on FTEs and rate established by VRS •FY 26 $1.8 M notice of increase to $2.7 M in FY 27 Compensation •Annualized cost from market salary survey implementation for public safety positions and some classifications furthest behind in the market. •Examples, increase hourly wage resulted in additional overtime pay needs, etc. •3% compensation increase step/merit results increase need of $17.5 M for the General Fund •This does not target any additional market adjustments identified in last market survey. •Contracted manpower annual services contract increase. Health Insurance 38 FY 2020 FY 2021 FY 2022 FY 2023 FY 2024 FY 2025 Revenue 64,559,264 63,946,756 63,963,474 64,551,050 70,432,417 73,042,372 Expenditures 55,053,210 61,004,675 67,477,586 62,131,086 75,466,998 76,691,810 Difference 9,506,054 2,942,081 (3,514,112)2,419,964 (5,034,581)(3,649,438) Cumulative Fund Balance 34,108,236 37,050,317 33,536,205 35,956,169 30,921,588 27,272,150 FY 2020 FY 2021 FY 2022 FY 2023 FY 2024 FY 2025 Actual % Exp Change -7%11%11%-8%21%2% Avg 5% Health Insurance as a Future Budget Driver 39 FY 2026 FY 2027 FY 2028 FY 2029 FY 2030 Revenue $74,608,048 $81,456,570 $89,047,318 $97,464,993 $106,803,936 Expenditures $82,827,155 $89,453,327 $96,609,593 $104,338,361 $112,685,430 Difference ($8,219,106)($7,996,757)($7,562,276)($6,873,368)($5,881,494) Cumulative Fund Balance $18,968,317 $10,971,560 $3,409,284 ($3,464,084)($9,345,577) FY 2026 FY 2027 FY 2028 FY 2029 FY 2030 Assumed % Exp Change 8%8%8%8%8% Employer Contribution 3%10%10%10%10% Employee Contribution 0%10%10%10%10% FY 2026 FY 2027 FY 2028 FY 2029 FY 2030 Employee $ Impact $0 $624,768 $1,374,490 $1,511,939 $1,663,132 Employer $ Impact $1,761,216 $6,046,841 $6,651,526 $7,316,678 $8,048,346 Hypothetical Premium Impact Example: •An employee receives a 3% merit increase in FY 27 and doesn’t change health plan selection remaining in employee only POS rate increase 10% to $ example FY 26 FY 27 Increase Per Pay Period Salary 60,000.00 61,800.00 1,800.00 69.23 Health (1,265.88)(1,392.47)(126.59)(5.27)* Net 58,734.12 60,407.53 1,673.41 * Health contribution occurs over 24 pay periods Virginia Retirement System •At the time of the Forecast, staff had assumed a 1.5% increase to the VRS rate applied to all full-time employee salaries. •in line with the previous two increases from VRS in 2022 (1.96%) and 2024 (0.73%). •On January 14th staff received the employer contribution rate for FY 2026 -27, a reduction of 3.06% (from 18.98% to 15.92%) •General Fund estimated net savings of $13 million Update on FY 2026-27 Revenues 42 Federal Revenue •Outside of competitive grants, the FY26 budget estimates $168.5 million in federal revenue •Human Services – $25.3 million (Medicaid an additional $26 million) •Housing – $36 million •Schools – $104 million (primarily grant fund, $30 million in cafeteria fund, $15 million in Operating Fund) •Five-Year Forecast included section on updates to federal programs: •SNAP •Medicaid •Section 8- Housing Choice Voucher •Continuum of Care Program •Owner-Occupied Rehabilitation Program Federal Revenue - Update •Exact impact of federal changes still remains uncertain on City budget •Estimated $2.5 million revenue loss for Human Services for SNAP •Potential loss of Medicaid revenue coupled with additional staff time •Up to $13 million revenue loss in Housing and Neighborhood Preservation •Impact to residents may be significant •State and Federal Legislation is constantly evolving •Governor’s Budget included additional State Support for SNAP Administration to offset Federal reductions •January 20 Congress released the FY 2026 Transportation, Housing and Urban Development (THUD) appropriations bill ahead of the January 30 , Continuing resolution deadline. •Direction from the City Council on supplanting federal funds is needed Department Specific Revenues •Annually during budget process we review department specific revenue with departments to “right size” with trend. •Notable Department revenue adjustments being discussed and considered include: •Planning •Treasurer •Aquarium •CVB •Public Works •Parks and Recreation fee adjustments General Government Revenues •Majority of consumer driven revenues are trending in line with original estimates provided in the Fall with the exception of: •Hotel •Amusement •Cigarette •Interest income •Realized and posted later in the fiscal year •Likely will increase and be a good source for one-time purposes such as Fire Self Contained Breathing Apparatus replacement ($10 M) •Real estate February 24th – last large local revenue to be estimated •Five Year Forecast Assumed 2.8% assessment growth Historical VB Assessments 4.5%4.4%3.5%2.6%0.8%-0.8%-0.2%0.1%1.4%1.9%2.6%2.4%3.0%2.9%3.5%6.1%5.7%10.8% 19.2% 19.7% 17.6% 1.4% -3.3% -7.1% -3.5%-4.0% -1.4% 3.0%2.1%2.4%2.2%2.2%2.9%2.9%3.1% 8.6%9.3% 7.2%4.9% 7.5% 4.7% 3.3% 2.5% 2.2% 1.4%1.3%1.5% 1.8%1.9%1.9%2.2%2.4%2.2%2.3% 2.6%2.7% 2.5% 2.1% 1.6% 1.5% 1.3% 1.0%0.6%0.5% 0.4% 0.7% 0.6% 0.9%0.6%0.9% 0.9%0.7%0.7%0.8% 0.6% 0.4% 0.5% 0.7% -8.0% -3.0% 2.0% 7.0% 12.0% 17.0% 22.0%198819891990199119921993199419951996199719981999200020012002200320042005200620072008200920102011201220132014201520162017201820192020202120222023202420252026Percentage Appreciation/Depreciation Percentage New Construction Historically Real Estate Growth has been stable and predictable…… •Development of FY 2022-23 Operating Budget •Late in process (February 22’) assessment growth determined to be 9.2% instead of the 3.8% assumed in that year’s Five-Year Forecast and preliminary estimate for budget development. •City Council direction and allocation of that unanticipated growth was directed toward: •Partially to implement a step plan for the workforce with years of service adjustments for departments (Fire, Police, Sheriff, Public Works, etc.) •Partially to adjust minimum wage to $15 per hour •Mostly to finance the Flood Protection Program bond referendum in lieu of raising the real estate tax rate by 4.1¢ Discussion 49